drew sagan

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Posts by drew sagan

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  6

  bittersweet justice

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm sure that i am not alone on this one, here's my expierance mabye you can share yours.

  years ago this sister from a congregation in our area was desprate for a hubby.

  she went everywhere searching.

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  drew sagan

  I'm sure that I am not alone on this one, here's my expierance mabye you can share yours.
  
  Years ago this sister from a Congregation in our area was desprate for a hubby. She went everywhere searching. Eventually she got the idea that Bethel was the place to look. She eventually found a Bethelite husband. They thought they were going to be able to stay, but they wern't accepted as a married coupple. Needless to say they moved to my Congregation. To make a long story short this guy was a pretty big prick that thought WAY to much of himself. They both pioneered and the cong. thought it was some kind of blessing. Me and him had a pretty big falling out, I can't go into the details but I can say this guy just didn't understand how life outside of Bethel worked.
  
  Anyway, you get the idea that I really didn't like these people. They where the type that allways hype "full time service" and stuff. They were also the type that were big on "Oganization". Those people who think they are going to be CO's or DO's, or even be invited to Gilead. People who are into the positions and glory in the JW life.
  
  They eventually moved away and that was that.
  
  I know this isn't very dignified, but man am I glad they will be stuck in that religion the rest of their lives. It's like these people and the Watchtower deserve each other. Make the "truth" your life and have fun, suckers!
  
  The bittersweet part is that of course all those other people who I actually like are still in as well. That's the way it is I suppose, you can look at things one way and laugh, look at it another way and feel depressed.
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  25

  Conspiracy freaks, here`s one for you!

  by Hellrider in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://profindsearch.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15 .

  the picture is from the watchtower of february 15, 1983. in case i`m not succesful in putting the picture in here, here`s a page you can watch it... .

  http://profindsearch.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15.

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  drew sagan

  I know some people get ideas with the "hidden pictures" that have appeared in some of the magazines. The only thing I take away from this is that there are some pretty damn board Bethelites.
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  10

  The 144,000 and what makes them tick.

  by Clam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i havent been to a kh since i was a teenager and was always intrigued by the 144,000 and that some supposedly resided in my congregation.. questions about them were inevitably met with ambiguous answers.

  "they just know they are" was a favourite reply when i asked how these "anointed ones" received their calling.

  has anyone known any jws who reckon they're in the 144,000 club, and what makes them think they are?.

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  drew sagan

  Now a days members of the 144,000 are seen as those "old" people who have been in the "truth" a long time. In my old hall we had an "anointed" one. An sweet old lady in her 90's. The idea that since she was born in the 1910-1920 and that she says she is anointed gives everybody a sense of awe. It's such a same to see so many people regard her as something special, when other old people the same age are looked right over. Every hall that has one views them like a celebrity.
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  59

  What MUST Jw's believe that they don't KNOW they believe?

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm looking for beliefs of jw's that have the consequence of also requiring some other belief that they may not like or be able to explain.. for instance, you probably believe that there are an infinite number of numbers, since you can always add 1 to any number and make a new one.. what you may not think about as a consequence of that belief is that you can also start with 2, add 2, and create an infinite series of even numbers.

  the set of even numbers is infinite, and the set of whole numbers (which would fully encompass the even numbers) is also infinite.

  so which set is bigger?

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  drew sagan

  Your topic is a very good question. When they actually reason on certain points and actually SEE what they really believe, they will be shocked.
  
  
  how about
  
  1. Is the Watchtower inspired? (obvious answer is no)
  2. Is the Bible inspired? (obvious answer yes)
  3. Why are people removed who don't fully agree with the Watchtower but fully believe the Bible? One of the most confusing things for JW's to understand is the fact that Jesus ransom actually applies to the anointed class first, and then the "other sheep" by extention. This is a clear violation of basic Christianity. I don't know how to word it, I'm sure somebody could come up with a good one for this.
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  24

  Letting go of the black and white thinking...

  by tall penguin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think that this is the most difficult lesson in leaving the jw world.

  the black and white thinking created such a neat little world where everything was so easily explained and categorized, provided you didn't mind living in a bubble.

  i think the one area of black and white thinking that caused me the most difficulty and cognitive dissonance was the question of jehovah's will vs. satan's temptations.

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  drew sagan

  You will find out in time that the entire world is in the grey zone. Life is so much more than thinking everything that is happening to your is caused by some kind of demonic or divine will.
  
  Black and White thinking caused me to enter into the organization. Answers to questions like, what is the true religion? WTF?!!! That is a question that can't be turned into some black and white answer.
  
  Keep up the good work by moving out of this painful thinking and going towards somethign that is more logical.
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  24

  law school

  by John Doe in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  are there any lawyers here?

  i'm a year from graduating with a double major in math and english, and am considering law school.

  any ideas/pros/cons?

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  drew sagan

  Pros:
  
  Many Law students who become competent in their field will go on to have sucessful careers.
  
  Cons:
  
  You will be a Lawyer.
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  60

  What Are Most JWs Disillusioned Over?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is their achille's heel?

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  drew sagan

  Lack of love in the congregation is what EVERYONE complains about in our hall as well. The elders go on and on about this. The entire group is divided.
  
  More than anything it is simply that JW's who totally believe in the Watchtower are living up to the "standards" less and less. The halls are filled with people who really don't wanna go out in service because who wants to bring somebody into a place that is so filled with a lack of love
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  20

  hello

  by puritz in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  someone talk to me

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  drew sagan

  Welcome to the board. Since you haven't provided a topic, I'll throw one out there. How about... Burger King. It seems like in these last days more and more Burger Kings are closing down. I think jesus said these whould be the signs of the times
  
  "and you will hear reports that it will be hard to get a wopper"
  
  Mabye you have some insight into this topic. In any case, I hope you enjoy it here!
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  33

  Hi ~ new here...

  by Riverwatcher in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm so happy to have found this site.

  i'm not a j/w, but my son is.

  several years ago, he became involved with a j/w, although she was being shunned at the time.

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  drew sagan

  I think I have a good understanding of your situation because I have been (kind of) in the same situation as your son. I got involved at the young age of 17. I got baptized and eventually married another JW. My mother wasn't very happy about my decision to joing the religion, but she let me do it anyway.
  
  Your son will never shun you if he is the type of person that holds his own personal values higher than any particular organization. Personally, I NEVER EVER EVER even thought of "leaving" my family or "cutting off ties". I still went to all of thier holiday parties and never made myself an outsider. This was a personal choice I made because I felt that keeping myslef apart of the family was more important.
  
  The problem is that sometimes when an individual gets involved in the Watchtower they can go overboard. Hence people who shun family and only spend time with their Witness friends. If your son hasn't cut off ties with you after two years, I think it's safe to say that he's not going to do it any time soon. There is no real "timeline".
  
  I think the best thing for you to do is study up on the religion. Read some of the books published by the Watchtower, and get a good sense of what they belive. After doing this I would encourage you to read some books that look at the Watchtower critically. Raymond Franzs books are the best out there in my opinion. They will help you see just what is going on in your sons mind.
  
  Take it slow. You may want to start asking him questions in honest sincerity simply to know what the JW's believe, ect.... Remember that JW's are not supposed to cut off their family from listening to the "good news". If you show yourself interested in what he is talking about, he will be more inclined to talk to you. By reading Rays books, you will be able insert questions into your discussions that will make him think. Take your time, don't move to fast. Don't start telling him he is wrong. Simply ask the questions that make him think and move on.
  
  This may take months or even years, but I think that eventually you will be able to win over your son. More than anything take it slow and show yourself to be patient and kind. Good luck to you!
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  17

  JWs Speculations on the Paradise

  by FadingAway in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there was a thread started not too long ago about how jws feel what the paradise would entail.

  one thing i always wrestled with in my mind is that once the earth would be populated with perfect humans that procreation could cease.

  eventually the children would grow up and we would be able to associate with perfect adults.

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  drew sagan

  This is one of those things I just could never understand. They allways tell the friends to "visualize" themselves in the paradise. What!!!??? Visualize yourself riding the trunk of an elephant (located in the back of the new "bible teach" book).
  
  The paradise doctrine is a good example of how the Watchtowers LITERAL interpretation of the Bible takes people into all kinds of strange and absurd places. People take these symbolic verses out of context and think they actually will have some physical fullfillment. Gosh!
  
  Much can be said for God simply by viewing creation. THERE IS A CYCLE OF LIFE HERE!!!! God created many animals to EAT EACH OTHER. But since there is a bible scripture that says the wolf will reside with the lamb....
  
  I can't believe I bought into the "paradise earth" theroy. There is so little evidence that the Bible really teaches such a thing.